I first joined Judy's Book http://www.judysbook.com/ for a Barnes and Noble promotion they were doing. The promotion consisted of writing 50 reviews for a $50 Barnes and Noble gift card or 100 reviews for a $100 gift card. While writing my reviews, I genuinely started enjoying the site. I found that I liked writing reviews, and soon made "friends" with other members of the site. I enjoyed reading others' reviews and contributing in interesting topics of conversation. Since then though, the site has seemingly gone downhill.Judy's Book management (if that's what you can call it) needs some serious help or rather, overhaul. Many members have complained of giving management feedback, and management taking days or weeks to respond back. Sometimes they never even receive a response back. I've experienced this myself. See the following post on Brad Feld's blog ( a Judy's Book investor): http://www.feld.com/blog/archives/002001.htmlThen there are those that are allowed to self-promote: http://www.judysbook.com/members/4151/questions/12374/ This being against Judy's Book Terms of Use.
There are those that are incented with gift cards to "quiet" them when they make a fuss, or complain about an action that Judy's Book has made.
Judy's Book is failing their members on a day-to-day basis. They are losing members left and right to competitor's sites, and I have to wonder 1)why they don't see this 2) why they don't do anything about it and 3) how they think they can survive if they don't change.
Some reading for you:
http://www.judysbook.com/members/4151/posts/2006/9/464787/
http://www.judysbook.com/members/7143/posts/2006/8/422152/
http://www.judysbook.com/members/38500/questions/12596/
City Editors receive monthly rewards for writing a set amount of reviews each month. Originally it was a $25 gift card (which was posted on the Judy's Book blog, but has since been removed) for writing 5 reviews. Then a member from Judy's Book asked the JB community if they would like to contribute recipes for a cookbook. This cookbook was to be created by that member and distributed to those that submitted a recipe for it; this had nothing to do with the City Editor rewards. Boy were the Judy's Book City Editor members surprised when they found out that the cookbook CD was to be their "reward" for the month along with a $10 gift card. Next, City Editors were surprised to receive in the mail a bag, pens, and t-shirt with Judy's Book advertising for the next month's reward.
http://www.judysbook.com/members/16441/questions/12051/
Now, City Editors are required to write 15 reviews for a $15 gift card.
Seeing as the gift cards given to City Editors at Judy's Book are donated, and Judy's Book is making more money than ever now, why is it that the rewards are dwindling? What does Judy's Book hope to accomplish by phasing out the rewards? The City Editors that wrote quality reviews are now leaving for other sites. Are the members that write one word reviews, post self-promotional material, engage in "cat fights", spout their religious beliefs from the roof tops, and write grammatically challenged, misspelled (when there's a spell check provided!) reviews and posts, the type of City Editors Judy's Book wants to represent their company/site?
Many members have tried to provide feedback and get some answers to their questions, yet they seem to be being ignored. Must they post to Judy's Book investors sites to get a response from Andy Sack or Chris Devore?! That worked for one member. Hmmm.......
<a href="http://technorati.com/tag/judysbook" rel="tag">judysbook</a>
78 responses so far ↓
disappointed2 // November 3, 2006 at 10:18 pm
Judysbook has been messing around with the members for some time now. They hired a City Editor Leader and said she was there to help the City Editors, but just when she was making changes for the better of the site, she was dropped with no explanation. It seems they thought they could do as well without her and save money. It was a big mistake and membership numbers show how much of a mistake it has been. Members are leaving right and left for gather where they earn points for posting with the sky being the limit as to how much they can earn in a month. A nice change from the demands Judysbook has been putting on the members since September. If Judysbook doesn’t wake up and smell the coffee soon, they will be in that place called dotcom hell. And since they are based in Seattle, you’d think they would have “smelled the coffee” by now, wouldn’t you?
xjbmember // November 3, 2006 at 10:48 pm
Well, it seems there is some dissention in the ranks in Seattle isn’t there? For some unknown reason, it seems that Judysbook has gone from a Community friendly, next door neighbor type site to one of cheesy deals and second hand freebies. It really is too bad too. When I started, it had promise. But now there is nothing but a bunch of old hens sniping at each other for stealing deals. Andy, are you listening?
Andy Sack // November 4, 2006 at 12:52 am
Hi. This is Andy —
Founder and CEO of Judy’s Book. Thanks for taking the time to write and ask these questions.
Judy’s Book is in the process of evolving our site to focus on becoming the best online community for deals local and online. This evolution is being undertaken because when we surveyed our users a number of them wanted more shopping related information and deals.
We’re excited about this transition and so are many of our customers. That said, the evolution hasn’t been without its challenges — and undoubtedly we’ve made errors. Trust me, we are doing our best as a small team to service and communicate to our customers.
In direct response to some of your questions:
i) First off, I personally respond to every email I receive. It’s very important to me and making this business succeed. We do not have an automated system to track all emails but we do make it a point to respond personally to all emails we receive–some responses are not immediate but we do our best to get back to inquiries in a timely manner. I did check out Brad Feld’s blog and sent a lengthy response to the commenter’s post. In addition, we typically schedule phone calls with members that write to us as well to better understand their feedback or comments. That said–we’ll try harder.
ii) Much of your email is about changes to the city editor program. You’re correct the incentives have changed…and they’ll continue to change and adapt as we work through learning how to service people better and keep the lights on at Judy’s Book. BTW — The cookbook idea was the suggestion of our members — not some greedy plan by Judy’s Book management. We pay out of pocket for all incentives & rewards that are distributed.
Happy to continue this dialogue. Please know that we’re hard at work — to improve judy’s book for you. It’s not our intent to dismay or frustrate our customers.
Thanks again for caring enough to write.
Andy
Judy's Book Sucks // November 4, 2006 at 12:59 am
So let me ask you this, Andy, since you are checking out this blog and responding so diligently. Why are some members allowed to do whatever they want (claim certain people have a mental illness, stalk their posts, self-promote their Pampered Chef parties on the site, etc., etc. ad nauseum) yet others are deleted without even a warning first for violating Terms of Service?
Why are some members given carte blanche on the site, even though YOUR STAFF MEMBERS IN SEATTLE intensely dislike them and are foolish enough to express this dislike to other members. Did you know your staff does this, Andy? They have cruel nicknames for some of the most active members on the site and laugh at them behind their backs and then repeat this juvenile name calling IN FRONT OF OTHER MEMBERS? Is this what you call “good management”?
I wonder if you know that a lot of your members have a much better idea of what is going on in the office than you think and it ain’t pretty. I wonder if your lackeys on the site would be pleased to get more information as well?
sickandtired // November 4, 2006 at 1:07 am
Yes Andy, why are certain parties allowed to comment as they please while others are censured in their posts? Could it be that those who are censured are the same ones that hit a bit too close to the truth for you and your staff to be comfortable. Come out from behind that canned comment of yours and tell us how it really is. We are willing to listen as long as it isn’t double speak and Seattle Psycho Babble.
IMtired // November 4, 2006 at 1:10 am
I came to voice my disgust at the antics on site but I find others have pretty much said what I came to say and in a much nicer way than I might have.
I also say, Andy—tell us what is really going on behind closed doors in Seattle and we will tell you how judysbook is really viewed by the world. But first you need to come off your high horse and look the peasants in the eye. Be careful though, you might step in something nasty and not be able to wipe it off your pristine shoes.
IMtired // November 4, 2006 at 3:44 am
If Andy really cared what the people say about his site, he would actually try to make things right. As of this moment, I have not seen any true caring for the members on judysbook.
Andy, what do you think Judy would say if she knew how you were handling the website named for her? Would she be proud or disappointed that you seem to care so little for the members there?
xjbmember // November 4, 2006 at 3:47 am
I came back to see what had happened and I find even more people disgusted with the site than I originally thought.
Andy, are you listening to the people? For every one person who posts here there are 20 others who don’t have the guts to tell you what they find so distasteful. Are you going to let the voices of your members go unheard? Or are you going to clean house in Seattle and try to fix what is broken? We are waiting for an answer.
anothervoice // November 4, 2006 at 3:59 pm
Apparently this BLOG is making the rounds and members are telling loud and clear what they have felt for months. I do wonder if it will change anything but for what it’s worth. It is interesting and definately entertaining as well.
To all the Loyal judysbook writers who read this. I challenge you to look closer at how you have been treated and then tell us that judysbook has your best interests at heart.
yetanothermember // November 5, 2006 at 3:57 pm
It is becoming clearer and clearer that judys book is out of control when it comes to member content. Members sent suggestions (asked for by the head honchos) last spring and they were praised for their suggestions. Yet, to the best of my knowledge, not one of these suggestions has been used. Now the site has dropped from one where you could actually find quality reviews to one that is populated with a membership filled with people who have nothing better to do with their time than post articles in the form of questions such as “Meet A Man With Whom I’ve Been Madly-In-Love For 30 Years!”
http://www.judysbook.com/members/AJ1952Chats/questions/9855/
If this is your idea of a quality article for a site that sold itself on being where you could find “quality reviews of local business” then go for it. Join away. But if it doesn’t ring true to you, post a comment here for Andy and judys book to see. Maybe they will see the light.
andanother // November 6, 2006 at 6:17 pm
Having been part of the City Editor program, I’ve been involved in a focus group, surveys, and some phone conversations with several of the women who work there. They seem to be real earnest with taking note of what I have to say, but somehow I don’t see any of my feedback get reflected on the site. I haven’t given up though since there is still good info there. I still use it some for local info, I just have gotten good at averting my eyes from all the random stuff that’s cramming up the pages.
therealproblem // November 6, 2006 at 9:02 pm
In my view the problem with the lack of quality on Judy’s Book has always stemmed from their rewards program. Lets be realistic here. Most of these “customers” who complain about Judy’s Book are only Judy’s Book members because of the rewards program. They don’t care about quality, or Judy’s Book. They care about rewards, and even when the rewards were “good,” they still were small. I thought the idea was nice at the time, as it was kind of a little thank you to members who were helping out. The problem was that it was a magnet for deal seekers.
I left Judy’s Book because it was clear that the content was skewing towards reviews written by a demographic that loves something for nothing. Their tastes do not run parallel to mine, and their reviews value price over quality. I’m certainly not saying that there is anything wrong with that demographic. It just isn’t mine. I’m from the demographic that doesn’t mind spending money on things that are worth it, loves buying things online, and doesn’t need rewards for being part of a community I care about.
That said, I believe that Judy’s Book was successful for a time at building a user base comprised of the rewards loving demographic, which is what prompted their shift in direction. The deals section of the site is clearly an attempt to hold on to the user base they generated through that rewards system, so I think it is a mistake to cut rewards at the same time as rolling out the deals site. It feels like they acknowledged who their demographic is, while at the same time attacking that demographic.
Perhaps it isn’t financially feasible to continue the rewards program. If that is the case, then I’m afraid the deals direction of the site will be leading to a dead end. Hopefully some of the rewards driven user base will stay on for the new deals feature, but I think it is likely that when the rewards dry up so will they.
Good luck Judy’s Book, things aren’t looking good for you, but I’m still rooting for you. Trying to buy a user base was entertaining to watch, but it appears you get what you pay for.
toomanygrayareas // November 6, 2006 at 9:50 pm
How can you have “rules” for the website and members but not enforce them. Call some members out for not posting reviews of business, product or website or asking questions that lead others to review businesses, products and websites and let others post away using JB like a chat room? How can a review about pumpkin seeds made at home count as a quality review and how can you give credit to that member for that review and then reward them?
JB needs to get their act together. Lowering the rewards is not the answer. Sticking to the plan is. If you are not fair to all members you will have zero members and no website at all.
Regroup, rethink and implement fairly across the board!
==================== adam jusko's bessed blog // November 6, 2006 at 9:54 pm
Veddy Interesting
A few things that I liked today…
For as great as Southwest can be, do they need to be so obvious about ranking passengers based on their punctuality?
Via Seth Godin, what would it look like if you put marbles in a blender?
It appears the See Clea…
yetanothermember2 // November 7, 2006 at 1:47 pm
And again we are seeing a ridiculous amount of unnecessary (and I suspect fake) reviews of sites and products to add to the number of reviews necessary for the monthly award. Does this sound like a website real people want to be a part of or one that is filled with middle aged stay at home women who don’t have anything better to do? judys book needs to reevaluate what they want the site to be before it goes under for the thrid time. Andy are you listening to this?
honestyfirst // November 7, 2006 at 11:25 pm
do you believe how Andy is avoiding the subject of how the site is failing? Can’t he see what a mess it is or doesnt he care?
xjbmember // November 8, 2006 at 1:26 am
I think “Doesn’t he care” just about says it all. As long as there is money in the site he will not admit defeat or even mistakes that have been made. good point honestyfirst, we think alike.
RealityCheck // November 8, 2006 at 1:34 am
It appears that Judy’s Book prides itself on its cadre of low-intelligence drones who sit churning out nonsensical drivel 24/7. These prime examples of the “dumbing down of America” are rewarded by the site, both upfront and behind the scenes.
Judy’s Book members are assigned “trust scores” which are supposedly earned through a demonstrated “expert knowledge” of their cities and the businesses found there. The higher the trust score, the more sage advice a member is supposed to be able to impart. Some of the site’s biggest embarrassments (and there are MANY) have actually been “awarded” with the highest trust scores. (Examples: http://www.judysbook.com/members/dmdifalco/ ,
http://www.judysbook.com/members/4151/ ,
http://www.judysbook.com/members/AJ1952Chats/ ,
http://www.judysbook.com/members/28282/ ,
http://www.judysbook.com/members/markansas859/ ,
http://www.judysbook.com/members/Jolene/ , http://www.judysbook.com/members/hvnsflnangel/ .) Through the backing of the site’s management, these members give “guidance” to other members and provide ongoing examples on how to fill the Judy’s Book database to the absolute brim with anything BUT meaningful, intelligible content.
All indications suggest Judy’s Book actually prefers this type of member over those who can actually produce original thought and well written reviews. This type of member is easily controlled and manipulated and, with just a little head-patting, is completely unaware of having been manipulated at all. It is in this type of member that they find their biggest cheerleaders.
Even Judy’s Book staffers, however, can’t help but be nauseated by the ridiculousness of these “leading” members and have actually let their true feelings slip on occasion. The staff has “pet names” for their most active (and ridiculous) members, like “the three little pigs”, “the bleach blonde bimbo”, etc. They have an ongoing laugh behind the scenes at the expense of those too thick to realize that they’re reviled rather than revered.
Sadly, none of it is amusing to anyone trying to actually use the site. In fact, one might get the distinct impression that any time spent on the site could adversely impact *their* IQ.
Judy's Book Sucks // November 8, 2006 at 1:56 am
I think Judy’s Book is about to fail for the third time and I will laugh and laugh the day the site goes under. Have fun finding a new job, Sydney & Sarah!
doubelieveit // November 8, 2006 at 1:49 pm
And yet another member from Judys book has begun a blog.
http://panndora.wordpress.com/2006/11/08/have-you-ever-heard-of-judys-book/
Sick and Tired // November 8, 2006 at 6:53 pm
I have never seen a site that is so filled with hypocrisy. What a mess!! I’ve also never seen a site with so many active idiots. The quality of the members at this site is sorely lacking and the few good ones that remain are being actively targeted and chased off by the morons.
Sick and Tired 2.0 // November 8, 2006 at 6:58 pm
When the first thing on the JB meeting agenda is “How can we accelerate making money?”. You make clear to the world and most importantly where your priorities lie, Andy.
Business 101 Andy – your customers are your gold. When your customers are happy….. your pockets will be full.
Sad to see that an MBA from MIT and a BA from Brown University never taught you that!!!!
realtruth // November 8, 2006 at 8:39 pm
Could Andy’s cluelessness be due to the fact that he is in fact a “trust fund baby” ie: he has no real business sense other than that knowledge of how to spell business and that is only by use of spell check! Care to comment on that one Andy?
Sick and Tired 2.0 // November 8, 2006 at 10:01 pm
Sydney, is it true that you and others you work with actually have nicknames for JBs members?
Care to share with all of us what those names are?
JBmembers // November 8, 2006 at 10:26 pm
But we earned those names!
Andy - Take Initiative! // November 8, 2006 at 11:24 pm
When Facebook took a beating from its users who threatened to leave over changes, what did they do? The responded quickly and decisively: http://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=2208562130
When Judy’s Book faces a similar deluge, what do they do: http://blog.judysbook.com/ ….hmm, no comments at all about the situation.
Andy, you are receiving a bunch of great feedback from users who care but are about to leave for good. Seize this opportunity and show some real initiative to keep these folks. This is what entrepreneurship is about. You know what to do – make it happen.
seethelight2 // November 9, 2006 at 12:09 am
WOW! I heard that there was some news being told about judys book but I never dreamed it would be like it is. How come the people at headquarters don’t answer the members when they have questions? And why don’t they tell the truth to their members?
Misty // November 10, 2006 at 11:55 pm
While I appreciate all of your comments, and even agree with a FEW, why do this anonymously?
Yan // November 11, 2006 at 3:53 am
Hmm, some discussion here…
Just wanted to comment on the facebook analogy… there were literally thousands of unhappy users in that case as opposite to just a few here (at least as it looks to me). It seems that JB is hoping to let it slide.
If I were you guys I would try to convince Andy that what you think should be done will benefit JB as a business. This is what his priorities are (just as probably any other entrepreneur) and this is what he will ultimately listen to.
And hey, be constructive. Calling someone an idiot doesn’t help the matter.
panndora // November 11, 2006 at 5:09 am
Again, to anonymity: http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976835910
Misty // November 11, 2006 at 6:48 am
I got it, panndora.
Judy's Book Sucks // November 11, 2006 at 5:39 pm
Hey, I predicted on Nov. 8th that Sydney would be fired and she has been! YIKES!
xjbmember // November 11, 2006 at 6:09 pm
Misty I hope you do “get it”. Being stalked in not what anyone wants in this day and age and despite a writers sex, thinking someone is out to get you for stating your opinion is certainly not a thought many of us like happening.
I write under a pen name for the purpose and sole purpose of being a voice for others like myeself who have seen the light of JB’s shoddy business practices and treatment of their members. I watched in silence for far too many months, and when news of this BLOG and many others came to my attention, I decided it was time to put into words all the injustices I have seen and experienced on JB.
If pen names bother you so much then why come back here and comment? None of us are forcing you to and to be honest, your comments lack as much in credibility as JB’s do onsite.
Misty // November 11, 2006 at 10:02 pm
Well THANK YOU for that. My comments aren’t credible?? Care to be more specific? Obviously you didn’t read the entire link to Melissa problem on JB…I was the one who pointed out the problem with using real names. And if you are following these blogs, you will also see that I had responded to panndora in another thread saying that I totally understood and even gave him/her a “touche.” What is your beef with me? You speak in such generalities that it’s difficult to really determine where this all started. The flippin’ cookbook?? Come ON now! LET IT GO would you?? I have asked for specifics, you’ve refused. If you have other issues, let them be known for God’s sake. Have I posted to you in some way that was less than respectful? Have I insulted your children? Your mother?
Misty // November 11, 2006 at 10:05 pm
And just for the record, I come back here because I was responsible for the COOKBOOK that is causing so much discussion and debate. I feel the need to, again and ad nauseum, defend my position with that entire debacle.
xjbmember // November 12, 2006 at 1:31 am
Misty, I just read your comments on the other blog and I commend you for your support of panndora. It seems I was a harsh in the credibility comment and I apologise. It appears you were wronged as badly as others and I wonder if you have contacted some of those members about your displeasure and disillusionment?
Do remember though Misty, that while you have a sore spot regarding the cookbook, others of us have our sore spots too and sometimes it is hard to trust someone coming onto a BLOG who just left the bosom of JB. You can’t blame some of us for being a bit leary of a member who until a short time ago was one of JB’s favorite people. JB has pulled the mole trick too often for comfort and suspicion regarding JB runs rampant here and elsewhere as well.
The voices here are many and they represent a great number of others who have been abused mentally and emotionally by JB. I am sorry you were led astray as many others here also were. It is certainly not a pleasant sensation to have the rug pulled out from under you to see JB standing there laughing with the rug in its hands.
I speak in generalities when commenting because to go into detail over all the hipocracy and injustices would take up too much time and space on this BLOG. Other than that, I also speak for many who I am connected with in one way or another who do have the strength of spirit to speak for themselves.
The pen name situation is as I stated, for safety’s sake of all members I represent and also becasue I am a combination of many persons experiences, written by one.
And Yan, you are correct in names not being the answer but there are times when we must come out and say what is in our minds and oftentimes words are the only way to do so. If the moderator does not find problems with these names than he may remove them. I respect his judgement and would not take offense at the action.
Also, many of us have taken our suggestions, comments and even advice to JB as to how to make it a more user friendly, community site but all we receive in return are canned emails that oftentimes have no personalization what so ever. It is a shame that JB does not care to listen to the best resources available, their members and continues to go on as if nothing happened. That above all else could prove to be their ruin.
To Yan // November 12, 2006 at 4:30 am
Yan – Yes, I agree that the scale of complaints against Facebook were much larger. However, I would hazard to guess that as a percentage of users the numbers are pretty similar. In addition we CE’s and former CEs should represent the “best”/most productive of Judy’s Book users and input should be weighted somewhat accordingly.
therealproblem // November 12, 2006 at 4:39 am
xjbmember:
Your latest comment is borderline crazy but I love it. Seriously. In general these anti-Judy’s Book threads are really fun to watch, because it is shocking to see people get so charged up about next to nothing. Very fun to watch. Enjoy the righteous indignation. You’ve earned it.
-
Your Newest Fan
therealproblem // November 12, 2006 at 4:50 am
I just wanted to clarify my last comment. After rereading it, it sounds pretty harsh. That wasn’t my intention. It is just that to an outsider, some of these comments seem a little blown out of proportion, but I’m will to admit that it is possible I just don’t fully understand the situation.
panndora // November 12, 2006 at 7:09 am
Tom, you may need a patch. Seriously.
OldIsAStateOfMind // November 12, 2006 at 7:46 am
Hey Tom? Thanks for directing me here. You know, on another thread you said that you *are* a CE at Judy’s book. Here, earlier, you said that you had left. Oops.
And your style here so much more reflects the style which I have so enjoyed previously. So which is it: You don’t understand, you left (which means you were there), or you are a CE? So many choices, only one right answer. Take that onion off your belt and get serious, man!
therealproblem // November 12, 2006 at 8:21 am
Okay, when I say I’m a city editor I am, but when I say I left I mean that I haven’t posted anything on Judy’s Book in months. So I didn’t officially leave, but for all intents and purposes I’m not a real member anymore.
xjbmember // November 12, 2006 at 4:08 pm
the realproblem….interesting that you would sign yourself “your newest fan”. Although I find that somewhat amusing in that you really are a bit clueless as to some of the goings on with JB, I find it heartening that you are beginning to see the light. You state that:
“It is just that to an outsider, some of these comments seem a little blown out of proportion, but I’m will to admit that it is possible I just don’t fully understand the situation. ”
it is true that outsiders cannot and willnot understand fully what has happened to many of the members. Because of this, all I can say to you is the voices you hear/read on this blog are honest, straightforeward ones and ones which tell the true side of the story.
You see, JB started out with good intentions but failed somewhere along the way. My sources tell me that they were offered some top notch help in organizing their site and they refused simply because they thought they could do as much with no added expense. Then when they found that tactic wasn’t working they installed a city leader who tried to organize the memebers and teach them to “play nice” as well as write decent reviews. That was stopped in it’s tracks by JB. Why is anyones guess but I have been told that it was another case of them thinking they could do the same with no added expense. Another mistake and one that they seem to have rectified once again by the noticeable absense of Sydney their replacement for the city leader position.
It seems to this writer that whenever they have a problem onsite they look for a sacrificial lamb and/or scapegoat and try to begin again. It doesn’t work.
The content as well has gone to the trash heap as well on site. What started out as decent, informative reviews has declined to questions such as “what kind of TP do you use”. If this is an example of the kind of quality writing JB wants for the site then is it any wonder that those who have left find blogs such as this one to voice their displeasure and disgust over a site gone bad?
Do you understand the disgust a little bit better since this comment or are there other questions you have for the commenters on this blog. I’m sure the owner wouldn’t mind your questions at all as long as they are pertaining to the problems at hand. He seems a broadminded fellow and enjoys a good debate as well as the rest of us here. So ask away, I check this a few times a day when time permits and I am all too willing to answer any questions posted if possible.
Judy's Bunk // November 12, 2006 at 5:54 pm
Misty clearly has an anger management problem.
Just About Had It! // November 12, 2006 at 7:00 pm
Sadly, Judy’s Book as a company appears to be taking the “path of least resistance”. Rather than giving every member freedom to express their points of view through reviews, comments, questions, etc. they seem to be allowing the majority to dictate the terms to everyone else.
Judy’s Book needs to take a proactive approach rather than a reactive approach to their members content. I’ve seen far too many instances where members have contributed valuable content only to be publically humiliated for their views because they weren’t in the mainstream. Judy’s Book has been remiss in failing to intervene. They refuse to stand up and formally say that the minority point of view is also entitled to a voice on their website.
In a recent post regarding Wal Mart policies, Judy’s book COO Chris Devore had this to say: “Great post, wys – thanks for standing up for what you believe in, and for what we all want Judy’s Book to be about.”
By his comments, Chris not only applauds the actions of this member who applies a public beating to the original poster but also extends the alienation of the original poster. Bravo Chris!!
This thread is just more evidence of the extremely limited understanding that the managment at Judy’s Book possesses for how to run a successful “community” orientated site.
http://www.judysbook.com/members/40081/posts/2006/11/486657/
Misty // November 12, 2006 at 10:16 pm
Aww…and here I thought we were playing nice, Judy’s Bunk! I’ve made my peace, spoken my piece and even given a piece of my mind….and I think xjbmember and I have, despite our initial differences, finally seen eye to eye. We’ve shaken cyber hands, agreed we’re on the same page…and then YOU post. ::sigh:: Nothing to see here, Judy’s Bunk…move along!
Misty // November 12, 2006 at 10:18 pm
BTW, those of you who left….do I OWN my content? In other words, will it be deleted from JB once my membership is terminated tomorrow? I’d like to post those reviews on Gather or InsiderPages. Hmmm…….
Judy's Book Sucks // November 13, 2006 at 12:20 am
Misty, if you go to the JB homepage, it says that although you “own” the content, once it’s posted on JB they may use it any way they see fit. So even though your account will be deleted (which will delete ALL of your posts) they may repost your reviews if they want to. Also, they ask that once something is posted on JB that it not be posted elsewhere, but I don’t think they would have any legal footing if they decided to sue you (not that I think they would.) I have content posted to JB and other sites and have never heard anything from them. Besides, at this point, who cares? Do what you want to do!
xjbmember // November 13, 2006 at 3:41 am
I agree Misty. If you choose to repost your articles and reviews, my advice would be to change them by at least 25% so they are in fact edited or rewritten articles. Also be careful to use an entirely different title in your reposting so they will not come up in the same search engine with those you posted on JB.
As for shaking “cyber hands” I agree. It seems you had the wool pulled over your eyes by the sheep on the site as much if not more than the rest of us did. And if that happened to mere members, think what happened to those higher up that were shown the door.
therealproblem // November 13, 2006 at 5:30 am
xjmember:
I think the “facts” you state so certainly in your posts are poorly researched, and sound like outright slander. Just because you heard something from a fellow JB hater doesn’t make it true. Drama queen.
canubelieve // November 13, 2006 at 6:34 am
it sounds like there is at least a mutual agreement that you two have both been screwed by judy’sbook. Now you need to get together and tell what happened to you here. I think you owe the readers facts on how you were screwed over so they can see judy’sbook for what it is.
therealproblem // November 13, 2006 at 1:33 pm
canubelieve:
No one has been screwed by Judy’s Book. Some people have simply been left with no reason to want to be part of Judy’s Book. Those are completely different things.
If Judy’s Book wants to cut back their rewards program, they have every right to do so. It isn’t a personal attack on the people who were enjoying the previous benefits. It also is completely fair for people who no longer like the situation at Judy’s Book to leave. It seems like Misty has made that choice, but unlike some of the other people here, she seems to have decided to do so without dragging Judy’s Book’s name through the mud.
The only complaint I have seen here that seems reasonable is that Judy’s Book has not been consistent about how they enforce their terms of service. How could they though? They are a small start up company, and certainly do not have the resources to be constantly policing their own site. I’m sure they try to do the best they can, but with all the bickering going on, I imagine it would be hard to keep on top of. They probably never anticipated how nasty their members would be to each other.
findaminute // November 13, 2006 at 2:57 pm
therealproblem:
You’re kidding yourself if you honestly believe that Judy’s Book never anticipated the bickering. They thrive off of it. It drives traffic to their site.
therealproblem // November 13, 2006 at 3:10 pm
findaminute:
I assume you have some kind of evidence of that?
panndora // November 13, 2006 at 5:23 pm
Judy’s Book inspired the bickering and they created the divisive environment. They had ample opportunity to stop it by stepping up and admitting their mistakes at any point along the way; by stepping up at all. Instead, they chose to continually act in the same underhanded fashion and therefore feed the uprising.
And now they’ve designated their sacrificial cow (Sydney) as companies in their position often do.
I imagine a similar scenario would occur if, say, the news got a hold of a story about Sears advertising a certain brand name tire for $X and then putting on a no-name tire for the same $X… in other words, defrauding their customers. That story would be plastered in the media and there would be an uprising against Sears with customers feeling like they’d been “screwed”.
The story could also be that Sears tolerated bad behavior in their stores by most customers, but physically removed other customers for the very same behavior. Or perhaps that Sears ran contests where the definition of a “winner” was not clearly defined, AND they also chose their contest winners not on the merit or number of their entries, but with a personal bias. Or the story could be that Sears falsely inflates their numbers on the books so that they can be viewed as more successful than they are, which would make them appear to be a more valuable, lucrative business than they are.
I’ll stop with the analogies and assume you get the point.
It’s already been clarified that Judy’s Book cut back on the rewards AFTER members did the work to earn what was originally stated as the reward: a $25 gift certificate. While they can choose to cut back their reward amounts at any time, or cut them out entirely, they need to be upfront about the fact that they’re doing so — not wait until members had completed their end of the bargain.
Tom, you’re tiring me with the same old arguments. If you can’t come up with anything new to argue, don’t post here.
therealproblem // November 13, 2006 at 6:20 pm
Why do you all keep mentioning Sydney? Why don’t you leave that poor girl alone? She probably quit because of folks like xjbmember. I’d be surprised if when she took a position with Judy’s Book she knew she would end up babysitting a bunch of bickering strangers twice her age.
Judy’s Book is not Sears. Judy’s Book probably consists of less people than a single Sears store. Mistakes may have been made, and you all have a right to leave Judy’s Book. You also have a right to be posting all of these disparaging posts, but what is really the point? I think it is clear that the City Editor program was a failed idea, and Judy’s Book is trying to phase it out as it didn’t add any real value to the site. If you are trying to persuade people not to get involved with that program, I think even Judy’s Book management would be happy with that idea.
As for tiring you with the same old arguments, I can only assume that you came here to get together with purely like minded individuals. People with whom you could collectively bash Judy’s Book with. Did it not occur to you that the Internet is a public forum, and perhaps there are other folks out here who don’t think Judy’s Book is evil? I mean really, if I did go away, what would you be posting here that was any different? I’ll admit that I’ve been a little unfair, and impassioned in some of my posts, but at least we are having some sort of a debate with opposing view points.
Panndora, you seem to be fairly reasonable, but can you honestly tell me that you agree with posts like the ones made by xjbmember? He/she makes statements of “fact” which are purely conjecture (findaminute did the same thing when he/she suggested that Judy’s Book is receiving more traffic because of the outcry, which I highly doubt). Most of my posts which have been rude have been in response to those sorts of attitudes. For that I apologize.
xjbmember // November 13, 2006 at 7:38 pm
The Real Problem, you state:
xjmember:
“I think the “facts” you state so certainly in your posts are poorly researched, and sound like outright slander. Just because you heard something from a fellow JB hater doesn’t make it true. Drama queen.”
I don’ t recall anyone asking your opinion as to what did and did not happen to me or some of my closest friends with JB. You have gall buddy to tell ME that I am a drama queen when you can’t even stand on your own and admit that your precious JB has blantantly bad mouthed, cheated and out and out used its members for the sole purpose of traffic on the site. I was taught from an early age to stand up for those who have been wronged and hurt by others, especially individuals who have been beaten down so badly that they cannot speak for themselves. that is what I am doing now and I don’t intend for pompus individuals such as yourself to silence me.
To say that I have no facts is ridiculous. I will have no further discourse with you as you are beginning to be an irritant much like poison ivy…easy to get into but Hell to get rid of! Be off The real problem…you are not welcome here with your disrespect!
therealproblem // November 14, 2006 at 8:48 am
xjbmember:
Who is trying to silence you? You can spout hyperbole all day and I wont try to stop you. You have every right to say it, and I’d hope that I have a right to call you out on it. You can disagree with me, but there is no denying that you make statements of opinion and speculation as though they are fact.
I’m sorry if I have offended you, but somebody needs to speak on behalf of Judy’s Book. If only to make sure that the things said about them are fair and true. If they have done things wrong, let’s stick to mentioning those things which we know to be true. Not those things that we heard from someone else who heard from someone else who heard from someone else. It just isn’t fair to spread nasty rumors like that (though again, feel free to do so, I’m not trying to silence you).
therealproblem // November 14, 2006 at 10:32 am
My last post appears to have been deleted. No one is allowed to disagree with the anti-Judy’s Book parade any more. The debate is over. Rational people please move on.
therealproblem // November 14, 2006 at 10:34 am
Dang it. that is the second time I haven’t seen my post show up until after I have posted another one. I promise not to cry wolf again.
panndora // November 14, 2006 at 11:11 am
Tom/Mr. Problem… where has your patience gone? You have no deleted post, just a hair-trigger on your accusation button.
As to Sydney, “the poor girl” was rather rude, unhelpful and generally member-unfriendly. And what draws you to the conclusion that we’re all twice her age? I’m *quite* interested to know what could have possibly led you to that thought.
What leads you to consider her “dear”?
Maybe when I find more time in my day, I’ll speak at the remainder of your rants–that have graciously been approved for post even though you’re prone to accuse otherwise.
canubelieve // November 14, 2006 at 12:08 pm
yes, why do you assume that the writers here are twice Sydneys age? Don’t you know what they say about the word assume….it makes an A$$ out of U and ME! think that one over if you can.
therealproblem // November 14, 2006 at 1:01 pm
I apologize for the accusation, but if you look at the time on the posts they are about 2 hours apart. It appeared to me that the post was gone.
Who said you were twice her age? I said she was babysitting people twice her age. Were you one of the people she had to babysit? I certainly didn’t make that insinuation, but if you were, and you are not twice her age, then I apologize.
Who said she was “dear” to me? I just don’t think it is polite to be making personal statements about a representative of a company who we only know from her actions as a representative of that company. Personal stuff has been posted about Sydney here and other places in the anti-Judy’s Book discussion. That is obnoxious. What she did as an employee of Judy’s Book may be fair game, but comments about her personal life should be off limits. How would you like it if someone was posting personal details about yourself online?
I also object to people making statements that Sydney was fired. We don’t know that. We can’t know that. More importantly we don’t know her. How do we know that the things people take issue with about her were not mandated by her job? Bottom line, I’d just prefer to leave individuals out of the discussion.
If you want to make statements about decisions that Andy, and Chris have made that seems more reasonable. As management of Judy’s Book, I think they are somewhat fair game as it is their decisions that make Judy’s Book what it is.
Just try to remember that this isn’t some kind of game, these are real people and many here are attacking them personally.
OldIsAStateOfMind // November 14, 2006 at 4:28 pm
Gee wiz, Tom. “Rational people please move on.”
I note you are still here. Hmm… The mind wobbles.
therealproblem // November 14, 2006 at 5:37 pm
Look I’m sorry about that, I blame wordpress for making it appear as though my latest post at the time had been removed. How would you feel if a post that wasn’t inflammatory was removed? I was wrong. The post was not removed.
panndora // November 15, 2006 at 3:18 am
(Marking this day on my calendar.. the day that Tom said he was “wrong”)
xjbmember // November 15, 2006 at 6:19 am
Thank you for your note about Sydney and the comment about “you were twice her age”. I for one am not that far from Sydney’s age and I don’t like to be seen as something I am not. I was not one of those Sydney had to babysit as you so put it and don’t appreciate being lumped into that group.
As for personal stuff being posted here about Sydney. If I am reading your post correctly, all that has been posted is common knowledge and public information. One only needs to dig far enough to find it. If I inadvertantly posted something derogatory, I apologize. You see, I am defending friends as well as myself and at times I become protective in my comments. I would venture to say that there is a lot MORE that could be said about Sydney and others at JB but most posters are keeping their harshest opinions to themselves.
And in regards to this BLOG or any other and the opinions posted here. The last time I checked this was a free country where citizens could say whatever they pleased. I have not seen anything posted here that warrants the pitbull response you have posted previously.
therealproblem // November 15, 2006 at 9:36 am
While you have your calendar out, you can go ahead and mark all the days you’ve referred to me as “Tom” as days you were wrong. It isn’t like you didn’t read the post where I stated that Tom is not my name. Please do continue to call me Tom though if you wish. It is somewhat amusing, and I think at this point everyone will know who you are referring to.
xjbmember // November 15, 2006 at 2:15 pm
If you don’t want to be referred to as Tom then what should we refer to you as?
therealproblem // November 15, 2006 at 4:09 pm
How about “therealproblem”?
panndora // November 15, 2006 at 5:48 pm
OK, Tom.
OldIsAStateOfMind // November 16, 2006 at 4:56 pm
Now, Tom, don’t get your undies in a bunch. I for one have known you weren’t a “Tom” for some time. In fact, it’s pretty clear you aren’t even a man. But I like calling you Tom. I think it suits you.
panndora // November 16, 2006 at 5:34 pm
Tom, I always HAVE referred to you as “the real problem”! ;D
Judy's Book Sucks // November 17, 2006 at 9:53 am
Since Sydney just graduated from UW in 2005 and is, I am assuming, fairly young, I can cut her a bit of slack. Hopefully she’s learned a lesson about professionalism and won’t make the same mistakes again.
Too Little Too Late // November 17, 2006 at 10:10 am
In response to your recent C.E. letter:
http://blog.judysbook.com/cityeditors/
Andy and Chris,
…….or should I call you Mork and Dork? Your response to your members concerns was a day late and a dollar short. ( in terms you might better understand: 3 months late and a tote bag and starbucks giftcard short)
Now for the dissection:
Paragraph One (the intro.): I’m calling *Bullshit*. You are not moving to deals and discounts to help your members. You are doing so because you have failed to “tap the local advertising market”. You thought that when you borrowed 10 mil to put your brainchild into motion that you would become a key player in the untapped billion dollar local ad. market. YOU FAILED! You are now trying to chum the waters in the lucrative deals market in order to save some face with your investors and in an effort to buoy your sinking ship just long enough to sell it off.
When will you tell the truth to your members? Andy, everytime you open your mouth, your nose grows.
Customer Service: “We feel your pain” – come on gimme a break with this trite placating mountain of doublespeak. Your terms of use suffers from selective enforcement. Always has and always will. Why? because you yourself Chris support bashing of members whose content you don’t particularly find valuable. Nothing more to say on this issue, is there?
http://www.judysbook.com/members/3710/posts/2006/6/390324/#comment-45294
http://www.judysbook.com/members/40081/posts/2006/11/486657/
Rewards: One of the biggest reasons for the downfall of your website is your C.E. program along with your “trust score” system. This whole program has attracted the “lowest common denominator” of web users (those lacking character and intelligence). Day after day, I see mindless idiots announce that they have made it to C.E. to the roar of the JB faithful. They usually do it by filling page after page with poor quality reviews, idiotic comments, and stupid questions. ( i.e. FLUFF). Congrats guys, you have succeeded at one thing: ferreting out and aggregating those that troll the net looking for yet another “freebie”. These morons are too stupid to realize that they are nothing more than “netslaves” working for pennies an hour creating mindless “content” all over the web. They bounce from one pimp to another like cheap crack whores “jonesing” for their next “free” gift/giftcard.
The intelligent folks have left the building!!!!
The “Flame Wars”:
Andy: Hey Chris…
Chris: yeah Andy?
Andy: Should we just pretend that those things being said about us on the blogs aren’t true and hope that they go away?
Chris: Sounds good to me dude. …. I mean either that or we would have to make it right by some of the people that we’ve screwed.
Andy: I don’t want to do that.
Chris: Yeah, neither do I.
P.S. To all of our faithful whores, your crack is on the way!
Judy's Book BLOWS // November 18, 2006 at 4:32 pm
Too Little Too Late, I think I am in love with you!
xjbmember // November 18, 2006 at 4:34 pm
“….pretend that those things being said about us on the blogs aren’t true and hope that they go away?”
…that sounds about right, why tell the truth when a lie fits the situation so much better? They still haven’t answered the questions put to them by members have they? Perhaps they are hoping those will “go away” as well.
xjbmember // November 29, 2006 at 6:36 pm
It’s been awhile and still no answer from the powers that be at JB. Do you think this means that they won’t be asking us to the annual Christmas party?